Do you use OLD bases?

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Do you use OLD bases?

Post by rise13eyond » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:16 am

I mean old as in from sites that no longer exist or by people who aren't around anymore. I've been having fun with the wayback machine. Although I have to wonder if it's proper or acceptable to use bases that were made by someone who left the community years ago.
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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by Parker » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:00 am

I guess that as long as you give credit, it could be seen as some little tribute to the basemaker. I do use DHF's from time to time. And I have some older ones saved from Historical Dolls. Bunnystick.com has a section titled "Dead Bases" with old bases that cannot be found elsewhere. I think I saved them all.

I like going to some old sites or running them on the wayback machine to see their dolls, bases and tutorials. I always enjoy reading a good old tutorial.

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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by rise13eyond » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:21 pm

Parker wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:00 am
I guess that as long as you give credit, it could be seen as some little tribute to the basemaker. I do use DHF's from time to time. And I have some older ones saved from Historical Dolls. Bunnystick.com has a section titled "Dead Bases" with old bases that cannot be found elsewhere. I think I saved them all.

I like going to some old sites or running them on the wayback machine to see their dolls, bases and tutorials. I always enjoy reading a good old tutorial.
Yeah I figured that. It just seems odd to give credit to someone no longer online. I think Suzy from DHF had a DA, it's got not content but I have seen people linking that for credit. But oh so many bases come from sites that can only be found on the wayback machine, so you can't actually give anyone a link as credit. I have several dead bases saved on my computer and USB along with dolls...Because it's just sad to think they'll never get seen again. I don't know that a lot of new dollers know of all these old bases, or others who just simply don't remember. Ah the old days.
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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by Parker » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:35 pm

If by "new dollers" you mean the young, inexperienced, Anime base users, then no. I'm pretty sure they know nothing about DHF or Xandorra. I think I remember one of the old dollers (a big name) making a return to dolling, and some of the youngest dollers simply didn't get what made it so special. To those who remembered her works and grew with her dolls, it was a beautiful moment, because, for a moment, she was back. But these younger dollers were not familiar with the old-school tooled look. Even if it was possibly the best example of such a style.

The Anime base community seems fairly similar to ours back in the day, but with different means and motivations. I don't think we truly share much with each other, only the base category. It would be interesting if we could hold something together through DA (since they're mostly there) and see what comes out of mixing both communities. But to be honest, I don't really know how we could do that.

Back on topic, I usually link back to the source if it's available (either an abandoned site that's still up or where the bases are hosted). In fact, when I use one of Suzy's bases, I link to her DA and Bunnystick's Dead Bases section. That way I give credit to her for the base and lead people to where the bases are. If there's no active site, but I did get my base from the wayback machine, I include the link to it. I like doing that whenever I can. I think it's because when I started dolling, I was way too insecure about my English and thought I would be transgressing some unwritten law of the dolling community that would get me shunned. So I credited everything: bases, inspiration, palettes, tutorials... And I guess it stuck.

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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by rise13eyond » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:48 pm

Parker wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:35 pm
If by "new dollers" you mean the young, inexperienced, Anime base users, then no. I'm pretty sure they know nothing about DHF or Xandorra. I think I remember one of the old dollers (a big name) making a return to dolling, and some of the youngest dollers simply didn't get what made it so special. To those who remembered her works and grew with her dolls, it was a beautiful moment, because, for a moment, she was back. But these younger dollers were not familiar with the old-school tooled look. Even if it was possibly the best example of such a style.

The Anime base community seems fairly similar to ours back in the day, but with different means and motivations. I don't think we truly share much with each other, only the base category. It would be interesting if we could hold something together through DA (since they're mostly there) and see what comes out of mixing both communities. But to be honest, I don't really know how we could do that.

Back on topic, I usually link back to the source if it's available (either an abandoned site that's still up or where the bases are hosted). In fact, when I use one of Suzy's bases, I link to her DA and Bunnystick's Dead Bases section. That way I give credit to her for the base and lead people to where the bases are. If there's no active site, but I did get my base from the wayback machine, I include the link to it. I like doing that whenever I can. I think it's because when I started dolling, I was way too insecure about my English and thought I would be transgressing some unwritten law of the dolling community that would get me shunned. So I credited everything: bases, inspiration, palettes, tutorials... And I guess it stuck.
Ah well I more so meant those who haven't been dolling for very long...I struggle to accept those big anime base users as dollers because I'm kind of a dick. But I guess I', making assumptions here. I don't seen any of the bases that used to be used for everything, being used by people who've only been on the scene for a few years, so I just assumed they didn't know these bases exist. I'm not entirely sure who's still around from back then either, I'm just assuming all those who got me into dolling are gone.

Yeah well the things I see being made with those anime bases leave much to be desired. They get used as a cheat for those who can't draw bodies and the result is a series of poorly slapped on shapes vaguely resembling clothes. They were the reason it's been hard for me to get back into the dolling community on DA. One huge difference between those and what I consider actual dolls is that dolls are usually polished and fully shaded, where as those done on anime bases usually only have flat colours or some excuse for cel shading. But TBH if that managed to effect what I consider the actually dolling community for the better, then I could look passed it.

Yeah I think I have all of DHF bases saved on an external hard drive, as well as most of those from Fainelloth and several from other sites. I'm still messing around with the wayback (still trying to figure out what my site was so I can get old dolls and bases I had on there that I've lost) but not everything is loading or showing up for me. I don't know what end the problem is one though so I figured what I've got is the best I'll get. Aww...yeah I don't really remember where I got my inspiration or anything from, I can't remember that far back.
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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by Parker » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:12 pm

The times have changed a lot. Anime traced bases are not used for dolls, but for "base art" or "base edits", especially on DA and Tumblr. Most of the work I've seen is of OCs and self-inserts in shows and fanfiction, so there's no need for any deep meaning or real artistic merit. The lack of meaning I can understand, since my dolls don't have any purpose other than "I want to doll X", but the lack of actual work, I think is mostly due to the fact that they're just looking for some quick reference they can use. To put it shortly, they don't want to do artsy things on a small scale; they want fast graphics they can share and, mostly, bases they can use for their quick graphics. Many of the big Anime dolls are very similar to our very first dolls, the main difference is that they don't go past the noob stage and don't improve. Some do, of course. There are some "base edits" (to use their own terms) that are on par with any doll from DHF or Pyrochan. In any case, they seem to aim at something different than we do, which is where things can get a bit tricky.

I do think that sometimes you can reach out to them, even if it's accidental. I have a base that got fairly popular, and some of these dollers have used them for their own style. I think they like it because I pretty much allow everything except for commercial use, so they feel more comfortable doing their thing to it rather than using other much better bases out there. Some of those dollers may fave and follow some old-school dollers like us. Perhaps seeing what we do, especially through walkthroughs or tutorials, can help them find out some sort of vocation they didn't know they had. They won't necessarily abandon their huge traced bases, but maybe they start putting more time on their dolls and move on to other things. There were some activities a while ago within DA's Project Educate focused on proper dolling, where people of all categories commented and participated in some way or another. Some artists like Pyrochan (now FionaCreates or former traced base makers like HollinessKiss did a lot in bringing new people in contact with dolling. Even when our personal opinions may differ (and you can look at the many times we've discussed whether dolling is dying or simply agonising), they have made great efforts to popularise dolling in big places like DA.

DA is not the best place to build a community, since it has no actual way of joining people. There's groups, but they don't work like a forum, so discussions like this may be harder to keep up with. I think DA has a great potential for dollers like me, who never learnt to code or build a website. I can keep all my dolls up there and still have people see them and comment on them. But for the actual feeling of belonging to a community forums are the only thing we have. Which isn't bad necessarily, but sometimes they hit a lull and our community seems dead. Then suddenly things get going again and we can't keep track of everything.

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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by rise13eyond » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:36 pm

I believe Pyro once made a tutorial on how to make an actual polished doll base from an anime image....but it didn't look anything like these traced bases. Its not the size of the bases that I dislike, while I'm not sure I'd ever consider anything of that scale a doll (I've seen larger dolls but nothing quite as big), its the quality of these pictures I dislike. They always look like the minimal amount of effort was put into them. I think there was talk among the dolling community to see if DA would create a separate category for these bases. But it never went passed that. As if DA would ever actually listen to the users. While images would still get put into the wrong categories it would make browsing for actual dolls on DA much easier. DA's current categories for dolls and bases isn't even ideal.
Not it's really not. It not really a place where you can carry on conversations regardless of how few or many people are in on it. Yeah it is good if you don't want to keep up an entire site though. I never got very good at CSS and never got my own domain name, so my site was never impressive, but at least it catered to me specifically and was fully customizable. Since DA isn't ideal for all this I have a hard time finding new dollers and I only know of those who are now gone of those who managed to stick around, like us. I'm almost surprised a community even still exists. We've got these forums for reason and I only know of this and one other that are even still running. There used to be a bunch of forums with different themes. I was on The Gathering and responded to everything on their faithfully until the day it was taken down. Now...on these two forums I know of, there isn't a ton of activity.
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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by ElfMaiden » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:32 am

On those increasingly rare occasions when I actually have the time to doll any more (I think the last time was probably more than a year ago now, maybe even two :shock:) I use nothing but old bases. I've no idea where to find new ones any more. I can't find anything on DeviantArt. I'm not good at searching. :lol: So I just use whatever I've still got saved and try to credit as best as I can, and some of those saved folders are from 2005 or 2004...

I'd bet that new people never find the old stuff, although maybe they're way better at finding things in a big site database than I am. It was easy when there were networks of sites linking to each other and you could see posts on big forums from people who'd been in the community for a while, but now my guess is that newer people will never see reference to any of that.

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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by rise13eyond » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:43 pm

ElfMaiden wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:32 am
On those increasingly rare occasions when I actually have the time to doll any more (I think the last time was probably more than a year ago now, maybe even two :shock:) I use nothing but old bases. I've no idea where to find new ones any more. I can't find anything on DeviantArt. I'm not good at searching. :lol: So I just use whatever I've still got saved and try to credit as best as I can, and some of those saved folders are from 2005 or 2004...

I'd bet that new people never find the old stuff, although maybe they're way better at finding things in a big site database than I am. It was easy when there were networks of sites linking to each other and you could see posts on big forums from people who'd been in the community for a while, but now my guess is that newer people will never see reference to any of that.
Yeah that's probably the case with a lot of people. Just don't have a lot of time. That might be why some dollers quit, life just gets in the way. Either that or they were eaten by zombies...You never know. I mostly use old bases. I kinda like to stick to a certain size and style of base so more often than not I go back to what I'm used to. The search option on DA is a pain, and I'm not sure its the sites fault as much as it is the people on the site. Tag everything under the sun. Tumblr has the same problem. I do note DARE search anything on Tumblr -shivers- I didn't actually get around to dolling until 2006 and I didn't get serious about it right away.

I seriously doubt anyone really knows how to navigate DA.See that was a good thing about dolling sites and active forums. You could have a page dedicated to linking other doll or base sites and sister sites. There used to be a site that acted as a database for bases. Just bases and anyone could submit their bases. I doubt it's still around and I can't remember what it was called anyway. But everyone who was active at the time was on there. It's just such a shame that newer people will probably never get the experience older dollers have.
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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by Parker » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:42 pm

rise13eyond wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:43 pm
There used to be a site that acted as a database for bases. Just bases and anyone could submit their bases. I doubt it's still around and I can't remember what it was called anyway.
Could it be PixiStar? There are DA groups focused on gathering as many original bases as possible. They're not updated that often, though. Possibly because there's not much time or not that many new submissions. Two I can think of are: Original Bases and Better Bases.

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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by rise13eyond » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:36 pm

Parker wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:42 pm
rise13eyond wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:43 pm
There used to be a site that acted as a database for bases. Just bases and anyone could submit their bases. I doubt it's still around and I can't remember what it was called anyway.
Could it be PixiStar? There are DA groups focused on gathering as many original bases as possible. They're not updated that often, though. Possibly because there's not much time or not that many new submissions. Two I can think of are: Original Bases and Better Bases.
Yeah that's probably it. I never used it much just because...I got used to using what I always did.
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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by Daenerys » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:15 am

You know, this is an interesting thread. It's one of the things I always found fascinating about the dolling community: the sharing of bases, credit given, sharing resources, a bit of collaborative art. Actually, it was one of the things that I loved online: making something together, be it written or drawn. (You know ... it prepared me for my current job, really... But that's OT).

-I love being back on a forum -

Pixistar was a great initiative, but I think it came at the wrong time. Too late, or at a time when dolling became split or the community had some sort of crisis based on age and what dolling really meant to old and new dollers.

Now that I am contemplating coming back to dolling, I am probably not going to use old bases. I love them, but even back then, I had a preference for a more cartoony look than DHF realism (which was awesome, just not my style). I think I am now ready for doing stuff on my own. I still like to make bases that are good enough for others to use though. Maybe new bases will inspire me more to actually start again. It's two computers ago that I last dolled.

(I am apparently still a sub-admini on Pixistar. Last base submitted in 2016, but Strawberry1 has updated it since, I think.)
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Re: Do you use OLD bases?

Post by rise13eyond » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:56 pm

Daenerys wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:15 am
You know, this is an interesting thread. It's one of the things I always found fascinating about the dolling community: the sharing of bases, credit given, sharing resources, a bit of collaborative art. Actually, it was one of the things that I loved online: making something together, be it written or drawn. (You know ... it prepared me for my current job, really... But that's OT).

-I love being back on a forum -

Pixistar was a great initiative, but I think it came at the wrong time. Too late, or at a time when dolling became split or the community had some sort of crisis based on age and what dolling really meant to old and new dollers.

Now that I am contemplating coming back to dolling, I am probably not going to use old bases. I love them, but even back then, I had a preference for a more cartoony look than DHF realism (which was awesome, just not my style). I think I am now ready for doing stuff on my own. I still like to make bases that are good enough for others to use though. Maybe new bases will inspire me more to actually start again. It's two computers ago that I last dolled.

(I am apparently still a sub-admini on Pixistar. Last base submitted in 2016, but Strawberry1 has updated it since, I think.)
Yeah. Having to collaborate makes for a nice tight knit community. Not just that you need one to create new things, but you need one to find old things. It sort of goes full circle. Community makes it easy to create, keeping creating makes building and maintaining a community easier. I do roleplaying as well so that's kind similar, the collaborative creating thing.

Well I remember when Pixistar came about, don't remember what year it was though. It head newer stuff on it but probably wasn't made at the right time, it was like just right after dolling seemed to have it's peak. And I don't remember it have any older stuff on it, so it was an odd time for that as well.

You ought to, it'd be good to have you back. I think I never before had my own style, you don't usually when you're just starting out, I was I think just mimicking more well known dollers and didn't want to branch out. I'm a bit mixed on whether I have an original style NOW. I still go for a more realistic style, still similar to those other dollers, though I know I don't use the same methods I did before because I have neither the same tools or programs.
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