So Is Dolling Dying?

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So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby spitfire » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:00 pm

I am not sure if this is really where this goes but here goes my rant?

Where is everyone?! There seems to be no truly active dolling forums from what I have seen. I am feeling a little frustrated at this point because here I come back when everyone else seems to of left. Am I missing something? Is there a new forum I am just not finding that everyone is thriving at or what? I would love to know the answer to this. Wondering if its worth getting back into dolling. Its starting to feel like there is no point?

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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Gwen » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:49 pm

Dolling isn't dying. This lull is actually normal. It's not pageant season and not many people have contests going on either.
Plus a lot of people have things going on in their lives right now it seems like. I know for me college midterms are abundant right now and I just came back from a huge competition. Dolling just isn't as popular nowadays, but it's nowhere near all out extinction.
If you want to come back to dolling, you're always welcome here.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby spitfire » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:53 pm

well I really do want to get back into it. Just seems to be close to extinction. I am having a hell of a time finding tutorials for certain things. And just blah... Well hopefully you are right and everyone is just on hiatus right now due to the season
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Artzygrrl » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:58 pm

Dolling has really changed in the last several years. But it's still around, it's just a bit different than the "heyday" when there was an excessive number of dolling forums. Right now there's Glam, and my forum, The Catwalk, which is sort of fashion-design themed, and I'm not sure if there are any other real active forums out there.

A lot of the dolling community has moved to dA, honestly. It's a bit different than how you may remember it, but many of us are still here. :)
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Artzygrrl » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:59 pm

Also, Blackfyre's right, this is the normal "lull" time. Some of us no longer have school so we can still doll though :D Come back in about March or April, and you'll see doll pageants everywhere! Still, there's plenty going on these days, too.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Gwen » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:05 pm

Artzygrrl wrote:Also, Blackfyre's right, this is the normal "lull" time. Some of us no longer have school so we can still doll though :D Come back in about March or April, and you'll see doll pageants everywhere! Still, there's plenty going on these days, too.

Haha yeah I just meant that's part of why I wasn't around personally. Midterms suck!
but you're absolutely right, dolling becomes huge for a few months a year when pageant season starts. Other than that, it's just a matter of who happens to be around and have extra time.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby spitfire » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:23 pm

Okay I am starting to feel better. I mean dolling was never the same after Eden Enchanted closed down. Which I remember crying over lol. But this is really bad, its nice to know its normal and will get better once pageant season starts. -sigh of relief- and I will definitely be heading over to catwalk in a minute and sign up =)
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Shixam » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:02 am

As far as forums go, Pixel Princess is still open and active as well, last I checked.
I think Pixel Empire is still open and under some semblance of rebuilding. But last I was there it wasn't very active.
There used to be one called Dostalgia until recently, but it looks like it's closed down.

I'm actually working on my own forum currently as well. It's still a work in progress, and the progress fluctuates with how busy I am and what needs to get done. I'm definitely not expecting to get it up before next year, unfortunately. I'm determined to get it open someday, though. Hopefully sometime late next year.

But yeah, this is normal. It seems like every year there's a scare about dolling dying, but it's really not that bad.

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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby ElfMaiden » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:49 pm

It does seem to be less popular, or less active, or something, than it used to be -- at least when I started, and while I was still active to begin with. I expect some of that is that it has apparently moved mostly over to DeviantArt, where (at least to me) it's no longer really visible, and no longer has the same sense of community that all the old large forums brought to it. I do miss having more forums. It's easier to have a conversation on DeviantArt than it is on some newer social sites, but it's still much more difficult than it is on a forum.

Personally, I'm just so busy any more that I rarely have time for all of my hobbies, and dolling tends to be the first to fall off the cliff -- if I only have a few hours one week, I'm much more likely to spend it playing a computer game, reading, or working on campaign plans for one RPG or another (or drawing for myself, or writing). I wish I had more time for it, though! I keep seeing things come up that I'd like to do.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Artzygrrl » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:58 pm

^^OH yeah Shix, I couldn't remember the names of either of those other forums :| And I forgot to mention yours, which (hopefully!!) will be open soon. Apparently I can't remember what I did 5 minutes ago either. (No...really...I can't.)

Elf - you're right. Dolling seems to be the first thing to go when we have no time :( I feel that way, definitely.

Spitfire, I never even was a member at EE, by the time I thought to join it was already closing :( SO maybe my thought on dolling's "heyday" wasn't even based in the real "heyday." Maybe it really was epically way more busy than things are now. But I have to say I've noticed a lot of people coming OUT of hiatus these days (myself included), so that seems like a good sign. Maybe our second wind? :D
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Pinstripe » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:01 pm

I do think the character of the dolling community has changed, but I don't think it's necessarily for the worse. I know the quality of my dolls and bases have improved, as well as many others, which isn't to say there weren't great dollers back in the day. There are definitely fewer dollers now, and for the most part we're less prolific, but it seems to me that more of us are comfortable in our own styles. It seems like back in the day, every tool shader wanted their dolls to look like DHF and every pixel shader wanted that bright, cute style like Angy Chan and others. I know this is a generalization, but there were a lot of people copying others' styles.

I do think the community is probably not very welcoming to beginners, however. You mentioned a lack of tutorials, and people just don't seem to make them anymore.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby aerieyena » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:46 pm

I don't think dolling is necessarily dying, but there are less of us.
It seems to me like there aren't a lot of people joining the community, which is what makes it feel like it's dying. In addition to the fact that many people have left the community for real life reasons like work or family or other reasons.
I think if we could bring more people in it would feel much more lively again.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby spitfire » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:34 am

elfmaiden I TOTALLY get that. That is honestly why I originally fell off the face of the planet. I was going to beauty school, high school, and working a full time job all at once. Dolling just was not a option. And then the craziness of being a full time hairstylist came into play and well with that you have no life. you eat sleep and cut hair that is all. i barely had a social life because i worked 7 days a week. Tis the life of getting "old" i started when i was very young and mom would get mad at me for looked at naked people on the internet haha. she understood after a while that it was like a barbie but still.

i can see where you are coming from pinstripe. I can truely say all the years I dolled I was never very good at it lol. But i did have pride in it being my own style. I always hated how their was this stereotype of how a doll should look. And what was right or wrong. As for everyone being welcoming to newbs that would make sence. I think everyone who has been dolling for a long time doesn't really have the patience to go back to the basics. It comes natural to them. And I am realizing this very quickly. I am not new and have been around the block, but its just remembering how to do things I used to, that is honestly what I need tutorials for. I need a memory jolt lol! and alot of tutorials i have come across have been very helpful in that field. PunkieMunkie has been a huge help for me also, it has been nice seeing a familiar face and feeling comfortable asking her for help as needed.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Parker » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:52 pm

The dolling community is still going, we're just witnessing a big gap between two ways to understand dolling. Back in the 2000s when forums and personal sites were in vogue, we pretty much new each other and if you wanted to get acquainted with other kind of dollers, you only had to look for the biggest forums or the alternative ones where people with certain preferences used to hang out. However, with the mass migration to DA and the disappearance of most forums, the community has been divided in different ways. The Anime community is probably the place where most (teenage) newbies start, mostly because it's the most prominent in DA and the fastest one. You can get to know more people, start friendships and make and use bases much more faster. Getting popular by having a quick trace of an Anime screenshot used by tens of people in a matter of days. They're young, they have more free time and enjoy the socialising part as much as we did back when we started. I see many of the same attitudes of the old newbies in these dollers: the hype about making your first base, seeing people use it, getting your first dolling siblings etc.

Our side of the community has grown older and responsibilities come first than dolling. Some moved to other things, even if they stayed within art. There are some who try to keep both and some of us who only doll because it's fun and it is artsy enough for someone with other academic or professional interests.

Pinstripe wrote:I do think the character of the dolling community has changed, but I don't think it's necessarily for the worse. I know the quality of my dolls and bases have improved, as well as many others, which isn't to say there weren't great dollers back in the day. There are definitely fewer dollers now, and for the most part we're less prolific, but it seems to me that more of us are comfortable in our own styles. It seems like back in the day, every tool shader wanted their dolls to look like DHF and every pixel shader wanted that bright, cute style like Angy Chan and others. I know this is a generalization, but there were a lot of people copying others' styles.

I do think the community is probably not very welcoming to beginners, however. You mentioned a lack of tutorials, and people just don't seem to make them anymore.


I'll admit that I'm not too fond of dolling tutorials, mostly because we're hobbyists, so most of what we know is what we do, not the reasons for it. So most tutorials were a list of steps to replicate what other people did. There were no clear explanations on what a certain tool did or why something was done a given way or another, it was just what the doller did. I knew for a fact that I didn't want my dolls to be exact replicas of DHF, but my own style. Yet, I had no idea how to do anything, and DHF's tutorials were a good way to get used to the software or the use of certain tools. It was also a way to gain some confidence, since it was common knowledge that we all used the same tutorials and dollers as a reference.

I think we still need to get it through our heads that there are lots of different ways to get to something, and that we shouldn't follow blindly what other people do. In a way, looking for resources that explain how to build your own palette or art fundamentals is much more useful than using premade palettes and trying to replicate a step by step. At least, when you are already comfortable with your program and tools. If you learn to see shapes in real life objects and people, you don't need thirty tutorials to tell you how to draw different kinds of shoes, hair, or skirts. You simply learn how to transfer those shapes you see onto paper or a computer screen.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby spitfire » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:13 pm

yea shoes are not my friends. in real life or in dolling. i have a hard time understanding them or how the shape of a foot should flow to appeal the eyes. i will never be able to do that. but that is but my own struggle. i do need tutorials for that and always will. lol
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Daenerys » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:13 am

We get this question every 2-3 years :) Usually around that time that I feel the urge to doll more again.

Mind you, I bet there are plenty of dollers who were/are like I was: dolling, but not participating in the community. You have to have the sto... stamina! to handle it's shifts and twists. Deal with the changes and the reaction to what is considered 'undoling'. The community is not as open and welcoming, always.

I do think that today's 14 y/o are less inclined to create online, they're more in consuming. Like playing clickgames to earn points to dress avatars. Making your own just doesnt seem the thjing to do anymore. Especially for girls. The 14 year old girls that actually can create their own websites and images and text are definitely going to have an easier time later in life, because they will be part of the small group of people who can actively create content for online consuming.

So. Well, that's my 2 cents.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby H|F » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:36 am

There are plenty of us ❤ Dolling isn't dead
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Mogget » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:18 pm

I felt it a little when I first came back to dolling. Now that I have been back in the community for a bit I find that its just matured a bit, evolved if you will, more individuals are surfacing. Also allot of the dollers that were around in the early 2000's have matured as well and life rarely leaves time for hobbies. I know that I dont produce as much or as quickly as i did 10 years ago, but Im sill here and so are many others with more and more finding their way back every day
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby LoverlySue » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:49 am

Nah, of course i isn't. :roll:

I do notice that some sights are close to shutting down, but it's just that some older dollers can't keep up because they're so busy with life and such.

I know that dolling will still be around for years to come because new dollers are still coming in every so often.

So don't give up hope, it'll pop up again with verocity once contests are around.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby mariiii » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:24 am

I havn't read all posts yet, I'll do it later though...

Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to call ALL new/young dollers the same. It's just something I noticed about people around me/meeting at the shop (at work):
I think a reason for less new dollers is the lack of ambition. Nowadays many people start something just for fun, and stop it because they don't get better quite fast. They stop it without fighting for what they like. It's too "exhausting" to have an artistic hobby instead of having fun at the club.
Eventhough I havn't too much time for dolling, I sometimes read doll posts here or at DA. "No CC, because...." is a sentence I've read more often the last months/year than in the beginnings of dolling. So it fit's to my argument above...

And the dollers who have been around for years and are not active anymore probably don't have that much time. To be honest, I prefer to use my free time for photos (+photo jobs) or art which can be "used" outside of the computer. Dolls are pretty and fun to do - but there is no use outside the computer. A digital illustration could be printed or used for graphics. Or even could be sold somewhere. But pixelart? Too small to print, to small for graphical use. Don't get me wrong - I still like pixelart because you have the control of every single pixel, and a few "wrong" pixels can destroy your art. But I only do it, when I have nothing else to do (photo/art/work/sport).

If someone has an idea how to "use" pixelart - it maybe has a chance to become more popular again...
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby QuinnKitty » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:14 pm

I feel a lot of pixel artists tend to have very busy lives,
or they just don't feel inspired to make anything which is why the pixel community
is a little slow.

I myself had given up way too easily.

Although, For me Pixel art has always just been a side hobby.
Something to relieve stress as things at home get really stressful fast.

I went/was on hiatus frm pixel art for maybe..a year or two. Maybe less.
I recently decided i want to get back into it because I miss it very much.
I was mainly focusing on my writing and digital art and since I feel I am in a good place with those
I want to grow as an artist.

i would love to see more activity in the forums, so I will make that happen by making/practising a lot more. :mrgreen:
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Daenerys » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:11 am

There simply arent any 13/14 year olds interested in pixel art anymore. Or tooling. Or any kind of graphics.

I am all for trying to draw some younger dollers into dolling again, but how to do that? There are so few communities left that focus on digital art, that arent as snobby as some out there.

Where to go and dpread the word that dolling is fun to do?
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby OKami_hu » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:49 pm

Dolling is dead, I just took a look at the DA categories.

*slinks off to bawl in the corner*
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby StormNicki » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:31 pm

Dying I do believe so. But I think that if we pull dolling off of DA we might be able to save it? DA has allowed people to charge for bases. Dolling has always been a free community. DA has pretty much taken that away. Most dollers don't even use bases anymore. I notice that even though dolls are being released, bases to use are not. And the ones on DA are mostly pay 2 use for what ever reason. In case you haven't noticed most dollers are broke or poor. Having open a bunch of inactive forums is not helping either. I understand that everyone likes different things. I think we should pull back off of DA. And start making the forums active again. Maybe go back to making websites.

Doller that can code can help dollers that can't build websites. Or you know Doller helping other dollers in general will help.

So in my opinion dolling is not dead. But it is on life support and will remain there unless we do something.
I am not saying stop useing DA just not be as reliant on it with our dolling communities. Encouraging new dollers is also gonna be a the key in this. Some CC i've seen giving is way to harsh. So maybe with new comers even if they are asking for no CC we can always post something saying " Lovely doll *insert more meaningful comment here* but I see room for improvement. But you have a great start!" ok something roughly like that.

I don't know I just wanted to finally add my 2 cents into this conversation and even throw suggestions out there on how to save it. It's hard to step back and actually determine if it might be dead or no. But it's not dead, there is still 'active' members so it would not be dead. But like I said it's on life support.
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Re: So Is Dolling Dying?

Postby Daenerys » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:13 am

So...

is anyone interested in trying to get together to see if we can revitalise dolling or do we just let it sink into our nostalgic memories...?

I mean, the dolling community has done some amazing stuff (see this forum, other forums). So, do we let dolling die or can we do something about it?

*is perfectly willing to brainstorm and help out in any way, even if previous projects have not always gone as awesome as they might have gone*
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